I’ve been trying to understand why so many intelligent articulate people in this world refuse to be open minded. I’m not referring to the “matrix universe” level of open mindedness, but rather open to the point of evaluating one’s assumptions. I suppose that’s what separates raw intelligence from wisdom. There is obviously a poison in society that is causing rampant blindness. My first thoughts are of the obvious, Faithfact, Telereality and McI’mclickin’it, but there must be something I’m not seeing, something more to it.
I’ve just let my mind run it’s abstract free flow. I don’t know exactly were I developed the skill but a pet theory about individual blindness kerneled in the frontal lobe. Humans envision themselves as a static thing. It’s an understandable concept to attach to , because an identity by it’s very definition is static. A chair today was a chair yesterday and will be a chair tomorrow. So perhaps there is a hardwired element in our brains which predisposes a person to latch onto to their current beliefs as eternal. But that is counter to healthy rational mentality. We need not constantly self debate that the sky it up there, but if it starts falling we best reevaluate what we think.
The following is a post lifted from an Active duty Soldier of the United States of America, who goes by the handle “Shore-Leave Organization of the Islamic Conference”. He did a critique of my favorite personal defense weapon, the benchmade push dagger. He’s obviously unaware that I was one pen stroke away from joining the Army two years ago. I’m not sure whether I’m just really good at manipulating people into making them look like fools or if he’s actually as blind as he appears to be. I’ve cut down the comments slightly to make it a quicker read. Enjoy!
Shore-Leave OIC said... Benchmade? More like Bitchmade!
Well today was certainly a surprise, a while back Kønig Hasemörder recommend a product to me, specifically 2.5” bladed push dagger from the folks at Benchmade. After an interesting argument and a series of valid points I folded like a card table and my curiosity got the best of me, the tune of $68.69 (with shipping and handling via FedEx, no tax, and an NRA discount).
My immediate impression of knife was “what the fuck”. In all seriousness I’m pretty picky about products that I paid legal tender for, weapons are certainly no exception. The first thing I noticed was the rubber coated handle which I thought was “odd” because the stock photo was a bare-bones metal handle. It’s really annoying to pay money for something and then get something else. Moving right along I then noticed that said knife was coated black and not a natural stainless steel as pictured on the website that sold me it, hey no biggie. A Google search revealed it was in fact black; maybe PersonalSecurityZone just uses one hell of a lens flare….
The sheath “looked” sturdy and seemed it had good retention capabilities. I really liked the fact I could put it around my dog tags, on a belt, rig it up on my gear, or just stick it in my boot. I was a bit concerned about the quality of the steel used for the nuts and bolts on the clip as it seemed it would take to rust very well. On the flip slide it wouldn’t break off like some plastic clips but rust has a tendency to spread and screw up clothing. If I’m wearing this under my shirt on my dog tags, I would definitely be concerned when operating in a temperate environment where sweat and humidity do a number to every and all things metal. Good to see someone’s thinking over there at Benchmade, oh wait their not…
Okay, now back to that rubber coated handle. Did the folks at Benchmade pay an 11 year old Chinese boy to dip this in a bucket of hot rubber and then finish it off with a lighter? In all due respect, that is what it looks like. Granted this rubber coating provides a nice non-slip surface area it doesn’t look nearly as professional or well made as the Cold Steel push dagger (for half the price with a 3.5” blade…) Oh snap, did I just plug the competition! Reminds me of a joke, “How do you know when your product sucks? When its compared to another product at half the price and STILL blows!”
The sheath itself seemed okay but it was a bitch to yank it out. I thought there was some quick release mechanism, nope, you just need to yank on it. Yea, I’m going to be yanking on this blade under my moisture whicking shirt that is under my ACUs that is under my LBV. Riiight… Too bad Benchmade didn’t include a medic kit with this badboy because that is all that is missing after you inadvertently slash an artery by trying to remove it. If this was a sheath for a normal knife I wouldn’t be bitching but people buy push daggers because they need to conceal them. A HALF ASS DESCENT quick release sheath isn’t that hard to come up with. Who the fuck is their target audience? Acne ridden cosplay minors, airsoft players, ARFCOM members, or the legions of armchair commandos that over populated the net? Its important to note that my wife (yes, the shore-leave OIC is in fact taken; sorry ladies) also couldn’t pull the dagger from its sheath. Maybe because it’s new, maybe because it sucks so hard. Whatever the reason don’t purchase this dagger for the little lady in the hopes of self protection unless you plan on sharpening the sheath itself.
The blade itself seemed legit; once again Benchmade is keeping with its intent not to be labeled an overachiever. I would have thought a double edged blade on a push dagger was given but hey, this is Benchmade we’re talking about folks, not ColdSteel.
The knife is probably worth a good $45 dollars yet it retails for about $80. However I’m not done with my review yet, the folks at PersonalSecurityZone.com deserve special attention for their stellar service. This is the first and last time I will be dealing with them unless it is in regards to a refund. They had this knife at the cheapest price and not surprisingly they also had the worst service. I had paid $11.50 for FedEx delivery yet never received a tracking number but only an automated bill that didn’t have my NRA discount included. Nice….
Well today I get a knock at the door and it’s the UPS man! That’s right folks, the U-fucking-PS man just showed up with a small box that had NO RETURN ADDRESS. I open it up and there is my Benchmade knife (I’m surprised it was in a package) packed in brown wrapping paper. The packing list was signed “Ghostdog” which to this day I have no fucking idea who or what “Ghostdog” is. Maybe “Ghostdog” put a rubber coated handle on my push dagger, if so “Thanks Ghostdog! Next time hire a professional to do it.” Or maybe, just maybe “Ghostdog” was the dipshit that sent my package by UPS and not FedEx with no tracking number. But wait, there’s more! This package required a signature or else it could not be released, I suppose it was pure fate that told my ass to take a long lunch today or else I would have missed my parcel thanks to “Ghostdog”. Luckily “Ghostdog” did remember to input that amazing NRA discount of five bucks but somehow forgot to put it in the bill. Perhaps that NRA discount didn’t apply with FedEx shipping. Maybe there was some fine print that said, “By the way, if you use the NRA discount we will send you the most beat-up product we can find in my mom’s basement, er I mean warehouse and ship it via UPS whenever my brother gives me a ride downtown, oh I mean the “delivery” guy picks it up.”
All in all I give Benchmade a 2.5 out of 5 for this product considering its price. Drop it down to $45 bucks (about the cold steel price) and we’ll talk. As for PersonalSecurityZone, I hope they have some personal security against lawyers because I want my fucking $11.50 for FedEx shipping back!
P.S. Kønig Hasemörder you SO fucking owe me a ColdSteel push dagger now!
Posted by Shore-Leave OIC
Kønig Hasemörder said...
Ghostdog, sweet.
I don't know about the rubberized handle. Mine is bare metal but then again I supported my local merchant and had the advantage of holding it before I bought it. It does require some strength to remove the knife from the sheath but in a stressful situation I don't think I'd have any problem. I've practiced drawing the weapon and have become rather good at it having it in hand in under a second.
I'm actually surprised you didn't notice the one real difficency with the design. The retention is rather firm, which I like because I have it one my person 16/7, but the metal clip is on backwards. Out of the box the clip's opening is susuptable to the force of removing it. Turn it around and the U part of the clip receives the opposing force of removal.
It's funny that you would think about wearing this chunky knife around your neck. That's were I think ice pick weapons belong. By the way, my first push dagger was a cold steel with a flimsy small tang, poorly designed round rubber handle and a blade that rusted on the first drop of sweat. The benchmade is 440c stainless steel and won't be rusting anytime soon.
As far as the edge is concerned it seems you have the same mindset as my green beret father. What is with you visually weighted macho men? I graduated from culinary school in 94 and sharpened, honed and held knives for 12 years strait. I know a little something about cutting pathetic meat, moderate cartilage and the more substantial vegetable fibers. Single edge blades are just as sharp and effective as double. Sure, they don't have the blood channel, anti healing design of the bayonet, but hey, a hole is a hole.
Perhaps this is more what your looking for. I don't owe you shit. ;)
September 10, 2007 6:21 PM
thimscool said...
LMAO
September 10, 2007 6:31 PM
Shore-Leave OIC said...
Hardy hardy har!
No, I wear it around my neck. I usually have three to four weapons on me 24/7. The primary defense being either a .40S&W CZ75 compact or a Sig Revolution TTT .45ACP Followed by a knife for cutting boxes and stuff, (any cheap $5 dollar knife) and then a CRKT M16 knife I reviewed earlier. The Benchmade would be worn under my shirt as a "last ditch" weapon. Cause...ya never know.
I prefer double edged as I've had knives snap on me before. And knives don't just "snap" they through shards everywhere. A double edged knife is thicker, and takes less force to snap.
No offense, but that is the LAST time I take knife advice from a cook! Its one thing to cut a slab of meat on a table, its another thing cut someone who is CONSCIOUS and FULLY AWARE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING. They tend to "get all hostile" and "loose it!" And its in your best interest to end things as quickly and violently as possible. In my experience of being in the military and vast hunting years. Chances of a blade hitting the ground, concrete, or being bent in bone since it got "stuck" are just realities.
As for supporting my "local merchant". Yea, well when US citizens start supporting their soldiers I'll start buying from my "local" merchant. These "local" merchants always have a hard-on for soldiers and are more than happy to rip them off. I have had to brief soldiers to be wary of anyone in a 10km radius of a military installation and these guys are flat out predatory. I usually avoid them like the plague and when people ask what I do that is the LAST thing I mention for fear of getting a bad deal. Everyone has to survive, myself included. I'll go with quality and cost.
As for the design, I would never put this on my belt. Where is the advantage in that? Seriously, if your going to put something on your belt don't put some little push dagger, put a real weapon. As this weapon was DESIGNED to be a backup weapons (not a primary weapon in your case) and is small, it makes it an ideal canidate for concealment. The whole point of having a small push dagger is that no one knows you have one, unless your searched. And I don't wear baggy/loose fitting clothes, and my shirt is usually tucked in. So I don't hang anything (cell phones, ipod, anything) off my belt. Hell, I usually carry my keys, wallet in my left hand and my right hand is always empty. If anything "happens" I drop everything in my left hand and go for the pistol. But that's just me.
As for ice-pick weapons. Seriously, pick up hunting. Use a bow or if your a real BAD-ASS a bowie knife. After you stalk a deer and stab it and it runs away for 2KM (or just never stops running) you'll realize how useless those weapons are for primary defense. BTW: a deer is a man-sized target. Now try a bow, you might be better, not try a rifle. Even with a rifle, sometimes they just take off.
I know for a fact it takes a good 3 shots on average to down a human target. Ain't no way in HELL I'm going to rely on a ICE PICK for self-defense. A push dagger is as low as I go.
As for the Cold Steel daggers, do you mean their first generation or their second generation? I saw their first generation and it looked like crap, their second generation looked better.
As for your rusting knife...did you oil it? Do you oil any of your knives? I usually oil mine every two ro three days. From personal experience, no matter how high quality the steel human sweat and the environment WILL RUST it eventually if you don't oil it. A good 3-in-1 oil does the trick.
The latest incarnation of the safe keeper uses a 4116 steel, which probably holds an edge better. Usually steel that holds a good edge (or is preferred for firearms) tends to get tarnished easily if you don't care of it. Unless you put a good coat on it, but that works for firearms, blades always have an exposed edge so you need to keep it oiled properly.
Your father isn't macho, he isn't trying to be macho, he is a product of his level of training. In the same way many military guys don't try to fit some "image" of badasses-ness, that is just a product. We don't go to the gym every day and shoot to "be cool" and be some "awesome tough guy" that shit is a BY-PRODUCT. The macho lameasses are the ones who do that but are actually an accountant or the manager of a Wal-Mart, they're the posers..not us. We have our preferences and train like we do so we DON'T DIE! God knows if I worked as an accountant I would NEVER go to the gym and drink every day!
And yes a hole is a hole, but unless its a hole to the head, it takes A LOT OF FUCKING HOLES to stop someone much less kill them.
By the way, I just realized something. How in the fuck did you get your ColdSteel knife tip screwed up? I buy cheap $5 bargin bin knives to cut stuff, and descent knife is only used ONCE and then discarded. I don't use any real knife for anything other than what is was designed to do. IE stab people unless its some emergency situation and I need to pull some McGyver shit. Who the fuck buys a knife just to cut boxes and open envelopes, that is what KEYS are for!
September 10, 2007 6:46 PM
Kønig Hasemörder said...
I didn't screw up the tip of the cold steel dagger, it just pocked with rust for no other reason than it's made out of shit metal. I carry this as my "backup" or duty knife.
I haven't used or oiled my Benchmade. It simply doesn't rust. Just like my Henckel chef knifes I didn't oil for 12 years cutting acidic fruits and dead meat. Iron rusts, that's what nickel is for.
The thing I've noticed about weapon heads is not that your not necessarily outwardly macho but you spend a good deal of your life drolling over golden saber hollow points.
I don't expect to ever have to use my knife for self defense. If you use the best weapon you have, your mind, you'd be more likely to get hit by lightening than have to fight. The reason I have a "backup" as a primary, is because the advantage of having something over nothing is worth wearing a weapon like a piece of jewelry.
When I become a target, or the world goes to complete shit, I'll start wearing a 1911 or perhaps a Desert Eagle. But until then, I'll enjoy being light on my feet.
I was joking about the ice pick. One would be more likely to kill themself wearing that around the neck, than fight of a raging dear.
September 10, 2007 7:15 PM
Shore-Leave OIC said...
Actually, I think the whole "hollow point" things is stupid, and I've already done a post about that. I shoot plain jane full metal jacket ammo (From Wal-Mart, in the bulk pack)
I don't swoon over weapons, I respect them but am very discriminating. When I first joined the military I didn't really care and thought a lot of the older guys were stupid...I learned a lot.
September 10, 2007 8:07 PM
thimscool said...
Then share some wisdom one post down...
September 10, 2007 8:18 PM
Kønig Hasemörder said...
I have a slight love of the bang. Growing up one of my chores was reloading 12 gauge shells. I loaded about 800 a month.
I'm well aware of the NRA arguments for guns, seeing as a 2000 pound wheeled death machine is just as dangerous on the street yadda yadda yadda. However cars are designed for locomotion, not killing.
I have seen the psychological effect having something that can "take an arm off at 40 yards" does to a person. It ceases to be about protection and becomes a means to manifest ego. The gun becomes a significant part of a persons personality, just like the blade has become part of me. I even paint with a knife. The gansta's in New Orleans laugh at a .32 and my dad calls my push dagger a toy. Something is horribly wrong.
I know that criminals "don't get gun permits" but the belief that the answer is to "arm every man woman and child to make society safer" is a symptom of a sick society. If every American who spent a the majority of their life preparing to kill a phantom attacker "because they refuse to be a victim" spent that energy working on the core problem, ignorance, we wouldn't even need seat belts.
You're a strange Nazi. You are so articulate and intelligent, but your philosophy and attitude make me sick. "Happiness is a warm gun."
If you haven't noticed I'm a strong explicit atheist. I asked my Christian father what he thought heaven was like. He said it's different for each person. For him it's a field with a dear walking out and he has his snipper rifle and shoots the dear. Then another dear walks out and he shoots it. And then another, and another. Ad infinity. 0_o
It's time to stop evaluating the curve of the magnifying glass, put it down and leave the ants alone. What truly disturbs me about my observation of weapon heads is the anticipation of use. If you anticipate "every situation" you just might cause one.
September 10, 2007 8:37 PM
Shore-Leave OIC said...
I think the opposite, people who don't anticipate things usually end up in them. If I anticipate starving in the wilderness, I bring some protein bars, a GPS, extra water, and maybe even a dog. If I am off slightly then I realize I'm stupid and get back on track. The difference is the guy who doesn't prepare, things begin to SNOWBALL and he may even die.
When I drive I am always scanning the road and sometimes tell my passengers to STFU so that I will avoid a "potential" accident. My friends and family think I'm paranoid about bad drivers. Yet my sister has been in FIVE accidents and my wife has been in TWO and narrowly escaped death because I WAS PAYING ATTENTION and slammed on her foot with my foot to brake and swerved the car.
Prepared people often don't find themselves in bad situations, and when those situations do arise they are a bump in the road.
As for real world self defense issues, maybe its confidence from knowing you can arm yourself and not wait for an armed response by someone else (shifting responsibility) but I think every responsible citizen should be responsible for their own safety. This isn't limited to self-defense. You should have gas in your car, a retirement plan, a way to defend yourself, some emergency cash on hand ( or as they say 2 months salary), a cellphone, a few cans of crap in case something happens, insurance on your car, insurance on your life in case you pass away, etc
A gun is no different. The difference is some people just focus in on "gun" and then they freak out and opinions start sprouting up everywhere like mold. How much safer would the world be if everyone everywhere was armed? The Nazis probably wouldn't have even killed one non-aryan person and they're takeover would have turned into a civil-war/stalemate with no genocide.
Almost every genocide in mankind was preceded by an attempt to disarm everyone first. The samurai executed thousands of Christians but the FIRST step was banning swords and arrows for all but the Samurai class. The first thing Hitler did was ban guns.
Mao once said "Power eminates from the power of a gun" Truer words have not been said, and unfortuantely as civilized as we think we all are in this world, bad people do continue to do bad things. It doesn't matter if your a christian or an athiest "evil" does exist and some people DO get off by rape, torture, mutilation, humiliation, slavery, genocide, etc. And by get off, yes I mean that literally.
I don't know what makes them tick and I don't really care but I won't be one of their victims.
I eat healthy and exercise for the same reason I have firearms, to protect myself and my standard of living. But unlike some people I encourage EVERYONE to at least try my way of thinking. I am very worried about anyone who attempts to shift my power and responsibility of self-defense to the state.
The government could not prevent the violence/rapes in the Superdome in hurrican katrina, so why the fuck will I surrender my right to defend my and my family? I don't think so. Maybe one day we will meet some utopian Star Trek bullshit but as of right now on "planet earth" not some ivory tower, I'm going to need a .45ACP.
I don't know why criminals do what they do but I know they've been doing it since before the first civilization was formed, and they will be doing it long after you and I are dead. Why take a fucking chance?
As for a .32, well a .32 is better than nothing. I wouldn't laugh at it, but honestly...you ever consider getting something else? Its not a cock competition its just reality. I'm not nearly as "hardcore" as some gun nuts, and many consider my "liberal" or "level headed" when it comes to guns. Do you practice with your .32. Honestly, my advice, if you don't shoot it once a month, get rid of it as it is more of a liability (in untrained hands) than an assets. Its a good idea to KEEP reciepts from when you go to the range in case you have to prove in court, you DID practice and not just some whacked out nut job who bought a gun and put it under his bead. It wouldn't be that hard for the prosecution to convince a jury of your "peers" you were irresponsible in gun ownership as you never practiced with it. Its like having a car and never driving, then one day you do and someone dies. Yea...you don't look good....
Now do anticipate its use, I sure as hell hope I never have to use my weapons (again). Its not some glory cool experience, and something we can ALL do without, but the opposite of having it like being hacked to death by Iraq militia or having your head sawed off with a blunt (but stainless steel!) kitchen knife, or having your family gang-raped then slaughtered. Fuck it, I'd deal with the guilt.
Of course will that happen (or in some cases happen again) probably not (unless I get deployed again) but hell, I will probably never get in a car accident and I've never been in one so I might as well cancel my car insurance and stop wearing my seat belt right?
You can't get rid of ignorance, unfortunately. its a part of being human...we ain't robots...
September 10, 2007 9:02 PMShore-Leave OIC said...
The difference between me and you is that I understand how you think but it doesn't make me sick, though misguided I do admire it to some degree. I'm not saying my way of thinking is "superior" to yours, but I hope despite the fact people like you don't like guns and want a better world, at least acknowledge the realities we deal with on a day to day basis.
Kønig Hasemörder said...
I like guns. I just don't like the idea of people wearing them to the grocery store. If shopping is that dangerous, I'd rather live in a police state than having john smith pointing and shooting. And if the police state was headed by Hitler, I'd rather be dead.
I don't own a gun for several reasons I can't disclose on a blog but mostly because I don't have a car to go to the range. I felt it was useless to have one in house. Had I the money enjoy shooting, I would have a 1911 Wilson Combat and a Belgian Browning over and under skeet gun. But until then I'll live with my Katana in the bedroom.
"You can't get rid of ignorance, unfortunately. its a part of being human."
That's what makes me sick. You state that as fact. It is manifestly not, ignorance in America is willed. However, with a defeatist attitude like that society has already made it's decision.
September 10, 2007 9:30 PM
Shore-Leave OIC said...
It is a fact that ignorance is a part of the human psyche, not just America. You can't know EVERYTHING, it is simply not possible, that is why mankind works in "groups" or "teams". The baker, the artist, the warrior, the whore, the teacher, the scientist, etc all work together because individually if we all just tried to know EVERYTHING and not be ignorant then we would fuck up and get eaten by a bear or something.
Instead we live in society and are most difficult problems is what to order at Starbucks while not holding up the entire line at 8:00am.
The fact is we are ignorant. We can't know how to fly a jet, load up a 747 Jumbo jet, land the bitch, get off, design a logistical system to take us to our mom's house. No, we rely on other people or "subject matter experts" for that.
Now by default there will be some problems, like chef's telling soldiers what is the best knife to use, or soccer mom's voting on gun rights, or catholic priest telling us what is and is not okay to do sexually with another willing adult. This very conversation is proof of that. You have no military experience, and probably have never had your life REALLY threatened yet based on your readings/opinions feel validated in your thoughts.
I'm not saying we should all just surrender our opinions and thoughts to supposed subject matter experts, but the reality is we all can't know everything. Ignorance will always exist to a certain degree. We can hope to limit that but we aren't all going to become "mini-Gods" who know everything. We may become "mini-Gods" who THINK we know everything...which is far more dangerous...
As for wearing a gun to grocery store, I don't wear one in because I think the grocery store is unsafe. I carry it with me everywhere I go just like my wallet, ID, sunglasses, cellphone. The difference is a gun is designed to kill so people get skiddish because you have a weapon in the produce isle. Nevermind the fact I could probably kill 90% of the people I meet with a choke-hold, making absolutely no noise within SECONDS, the gun that gives a ear shattering BANG that alerts everyone is more deadly...whatever...
I'd rather have John Smith pointing and shooting than a cop. I've SEEN police shoot, and I've seen people in the military shoot and its SCARY ! You must think cops and soldiers all love guns and shoot every day, the opposite may be more true. I have been to the range with active law-enforcement that routinely MISSED at 50 yards but you TRUST them over some dude who loves guns and shoots every weekend? Just because you got a badge and gun doesn't mean your competent. The same is true for soldiers. The common man is afraid of everyone being armed because they will just be shooting "willy-nilly". Yet they conviently glaze over the fact most law-enforcement statistics reveal that police officers usually miss and chances of being hit by a stray bullet from a cop is MUCH higher than that from a civilian. Nevermind the fact police have the power to kick in someone's door and start blasting away, unlike John Smith. And police officers never make the mistake and KICK IN THE WRONG DOOR and KILL THE WRONG PEOPLE....do they?
At least I know John Smith isn't kicking in my door with a 12 guage unless he's gone plumb psycho. As opposed the Sheriffs office that "made a mistake".
And what is really pathetic is saying "if Hitler was head of state I'd kill myself". Wow, yet you claim americans are ignorant...interesting.
If Hitler was head in state, while your busy suck-starting a 20-guage, I will do my best to change things. And I don't mean by marches or feeding the children, I mean guerilla tacts. Hell someone has to fight, and it sure as hell ain't the "We are all ignorant so I'm going to blow my brains out" emo types. Yea, I might be caught, yea I might get killed but then again I might actually overthrow the bastard or make him think twice about maltreating citizens.
All it takes for evil to prevail is good men to do nothing (or suck start a 12-guage whatever comes first)
Saying society is ignorant isn't some defeatist attitude its reality. If my computer crashes then I'm looking for the skinny asian kid nextdoor, I'm not going to waste my time screwing around with it. And if he needs his car fixed or a hurricane hits and ne needs to survive then I help him out. The point is he's igonorant and so am I in some things. But we are AWARE of it, as opposed to being blissfully ignorant AND arrogant in thinking "we can do all things"
And damn, you sure do get sick a lot. Guns are just tools, they can be used for oppression, fighting oppression, self defense, murder, genocide,rape, hunting, or settling family disputes (kidding). The point is they are tools, and its the user who gives them intent. They aren't intrinsically "evil". Its like plastic surgery, I think its bad but I'm not dumb enough to think plastic surgery shouldn't be allowed, it was designed to help people that we're heavily disfigured either by birth or a horrible accident. yet now its main purpose is giving air-heads a bigger (but less sensitive) breast. That doesn't make it "stupid", just the users.
As for Wilson Combat 1911...damn you got some deep pockets. I think they have some nice pistols but I'm not spending that kind of money for one. A rifle, MAYBE, a pistol...nigga please!
September 10, 2007 10:04 PM
Kønig Hasemörder said...
"the fact most law-enforcement statistics reveal"
There are lies, damn lies and statistics - Mark Twain
My claim that 'ignorance in America is willed.' was not intended (obviously) to mean that we can individually know everything. And I wasn't even referring to specific knowledge, I was referring to principle truths. Truths that humans have been capable of achieving for millenniums. If they were realized by all we wouldn't have one nuke on the planet. Nukes are just big guns ya' know.
The reason I pointed out our United State is that we have the most wealth and security on the planet, yet the vast population live in a constant state of fear.
I know that I'm not a "mini-god" and if a hitlerish dictator (other than bush) took control of the country, I know that my little gorillas would be exterminated like cockroaches achomlishing nothing. I'm using the best defensive weapon I have, the pen.
I would survive in a nightmare of fascism because I would morph into a good little 20 gauge cock sucking Christian and start writing with invisible ink. I know heading for the hills are a fiction, so I would just snuff it if I couldn't bare to adapt. I'm just a part of society and if society choses that path, I have no choice but to accept it.
The point is, I know that the "team" is how society will succeed. My job is opening enough eyes, and have their eyes open other eyes, to make the world realize there is only one team. Star Trek Federated bullshit I know, but the Human Race will ether sink or swim, and the choice is today.
So keep reviewing your tools, carrying your gun around, casually, wild west style, and add to the paranoia that's causing this mess. Or better yet join the police force because they need all the help they can get.
There's terrorists in them thar' hills. Better hide in the Bush.
September 10, 2007 10:48 PM
Shore-Leave OIC said...
Well I don't believe its the "terrorist" at all, and I think they are the last problem.
As for a state of paranoi. Americans are some of the most educated people on earth (I'm sure you think that sounds stupid but try living overseas for a while, not a vacation but actually live overseas and you'll be shocked at their ignorance). I've heard the "We are all paranoid" cowboys argument before and it simply doesn't hold argument. In fact, you could say all of the western world is a bunch of paranoid cowboys, from the Greeks to the present day.
The reason we may come off as paranoid is that in western civilization the common man has a lot more power than in other cultures. We usually aren't servants of the state or subjucated , as such we have more individual freedoms and individual responsibilities and we are a bit more cautious in all things...self-defense included.
As for an oppressive government, yes you can fight one successfully. Pens are great bullets are better. Your father was a green beret, I'm sure he is painfully aware that a few tribes men with rifles can screw up or destroy a big government. Believe me it can be done. People ban arms for a REASON. If the powers at be really thought that "we" couldn't do anything, there wouldn't be so many laws against firearms. This isn't opinion, its history.
September 11, 2007 6:10 AM
speaking of which, I think what we are basically arguing here is what is known as the "prisoners dilema" in regards to weapons profileration, especially regarding nuclear weapons.
Under that theory, by default everyone is armed because the reverse benefits no one. Collectively if we worked together we would ALL be better off, but as the prisoner dilema states, mankind is incapable of working in such a manner. I'm sure you may have heard of it already if not http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma
explains it okay
September 11, 2007 6:15 AM
Kønig Hasemörder said...
Trying to reduce the behavior of Nations to individuals playing a game of poker is an example of how deluded the home of the frees view of the world is. Game theory demands that all players are equally powerful and aware of the rules of the game. I'm for total nuclear disarmament or giving every Nation a nuke. What's wrong, don't like the rules?
"but as the prisoner dilemma states, mankind is incapable of working in such a manner."
If we as a species can not free ourselves from this self inflicted prison, I agree with you, the solution is lost. Even the idea that society is chopped into parts and those parts are competing for a payoff, blows my mind. There is only one game, one player and one solution. What stands in the way of that is Mob rule and/or Religion.
"Pens are great bullets are better. Your father was a green beret, I'm sure he is painfully aware that a few tribes men with rifles can screw up or destroy a big government."
My fathers opinion as a Bronze star Purple heart three tour Veteran is one of a child? He would have used the pen to solve Viet Nam and Operation Iraqi freedom. Though the pen would have been from the tip of the Commander in chief as he released the Nukes. The war did something strange to him. He realized he was capable of experiencing fear. Something he thought he was incapable of and the soul source of his pain. Now he waits for the collapse of society so he can drink from his in ground pool and use his arsenal.
He strokes his guns because it is a symbol that he has concurred his fear??? I've listened to that nut quack for 32 years. I've seen his loading room develop into a stream lined machine and the gun safes multiply. His Blasting verbatim is ad nausium. I know why he has devoted his life to weapons and the war channel, because he wants to feel useful and is counting on the world falling to shit. Well my friend, the monkey is holding the butcher knife and if the world chooses that path their will be no water to drink or air to breath. So your weapon reviews will be for naught. Do something useful and work on transferring your self to the mind of a radiation resistant roach. Or, like I suggested before, use your love of weapons and join the police force so you have a legitimate outlet and support the peace, not the fear.
"and you'll be shocked at their ignorance"
I'm not shocked, because they don't have the money to fund their schools like we do. If they had half the funds and a quarter their population they would put us to shame with their will. You're confusing knowledge with intelligence and shining stars with general population. America does have the most intellectually intense situations breeding freaks of intellect. It also houses vast pastures as grass eating telezombie sheep. The general population was more intelligent 3000 years ago than they are today. Not because they believed the earth was flat, which they had valid reason to, but because they actually had to use their minds. You know, exorcise. The most intelligent person knows what they know and knows what they don't know. I know I don't know a lot, say something to open my eyes. Or continue to present your rap opinion facts.
The armies separated; Pyrrhus replied to one that gave him joy of his victory, that one more such victory would utterly undo him.
September 11, 2007 8:49 AM
Shore-Leave OIC said...
Okay...in case you haven't noticead I am an active duty military member. Why would I quit and then join the police force? Am I doing no good for anyone by being in the military? You keep mentioning the police force as if they are beyond approach. You seem to continue to attack those who have weapons, review weapons as if you have unresolved issues with weapons in general. I don't know but I'm sensing something more than "I hate guns"
I mentioned the prisoners dilema and you conviently just glazed past that. If you actually understand the prisoners dilemna then you'll know it applies to nations and their build up of armies and weaponary.
The pen is mighter than the sword? The pen is backed by the sword! Your father wouldn't have used a pen, he would have used a nuke. Just because someone SIGNED some paperwork doesn't mean the pen is mighter than the sword. The nuke was still launched. Saying the pen is mightier than the sword is like saying the key is mighter than the car.
I never called your father childish ,I don't know where this is coming from.
I've had conversations with anti-gun people before and it always turns into some self-righteous bant about the "children" a new world, world peace, the sorry state of mankind and how right they are. The arguments take on an almost "holy" self-righteneous of ideas.
Your not an athiest, you believe in yourself and mankind far too much despite evidence to the contrary.
I haven't heard such self-rightenous arrogance since I went to a Baptist church. I say facts because I HAVE facts. I speak from experience. I did not spend my life TALKING about change or merely blogging, I joined the military and for better or for worse I know I made a change. And its better to try to improve the world and screw up than just bitch about and rant about how smart you are and how dumb everyone else is.
Long after my death what me and few other "ignorant" americans did in Afghanistan and Iraq will be remebered. We prevented a few "bad things" from happening and I know for a fact I saved a few people's lives. And I'll be damned if some "do-nothing" is going to insult me, or my lifestyle as they spend the majority of their time critizing the world and talking about how much better it can be.
In the words of Three-6-Mafia, "It is what it is" and that's the world, take it or leave. Things are perfect and they never will be. Life isn't perfect, even nature has its problems. That's just life and people who have a problem with that will never find any happiness. They will critize their world, their jobs, their countrymen, their Gods, their religions, their wives, and their children.
You need to get over yourself.
Its a real insult to hear someone say, "Do some good and be a cop" as if I'm doing nothing. What your father does is his OWN buisness. He did his part in the world and I'm sure you think it was all joke and don't even know 5% of what he did because I'm sure almost everything he did was classified. He's had for more experience in this world than you. And believe me, military experience isn't just "point and shoot". You don't walk into some village like Rambo.
I've lived both lives. I did the hippie self-arrogant thing in college, I volunteered at soup shelters, I even flirted with different political ideas and philosophies. All that shit changed when I was sent all over the world from Tokyo to places I couldn't even pronounce. I was englightened to the world and as Socrates said, "The only thing I can be sure of now is that I know nothing"
So I don't SPOUT off my opinions as a pseudo-religion or critize people who actually DO SOMETHING with their own lives.
I was hoping this conversation would end as so many "anti-gun" conversations do. Someone gets emotional like you just pissed on their ancestors grave, and flip out on you with borderline personal attacks. Its just a tool, nothing more. If you have a issue with people carrying around one then you have other issues that need to be addressed.
We're people smarter 3000 years ago than today? I guess if you count all the genocides and blood shed and lack of freedoms. Wars were common and killed A LOT MORE PEOPLE. Pillaging was okay, rape was okay, and genocide was expected. If someone in Africa was starving no one gave a shit, racism was the status quo, and if someone even THOUGHT you didn't believe in God you were burned alive. Yea...they we real fucking smart...
If I ever find a time machine I'll hook you up
September 11, 2007 12:05 PM
Kønig Hasemörder said...
O_o
September 11, 2007 1:28 PM
Woozie said...
That's not a knife...
Y'all spend too much time debating...stuff. It went from push daggers to something about active duty military service. I think you're perfect for each other ;)
September 11, 2007 2:59 PM
Shore-Leave OIC said...
No Woozie, it actually went from
Push daggers to
Guns
To gun control
to the fallacy of a Utopian dream
the military service
to his father
to the prisoners dilema
back to his father
to questioning mankind
then resting on TIME MACHINES!
Like all conversations with people who hate the military/guns it always ends with TIME MACHINES! Because someone is pissed that a Nuke/Uzi was invented and wants to undo Pandoras Box (or at least the weapons that we discovered by opening it) we can keep everything else that is a by-product of human achievement
And Konig don't give me the O_o I should be doing the o_O to you!
September 11, 2007 4:31 PM
Kønig Hasemörder said...
"I have a slight love of the bang."
September 10, 2007 8:37 PM
"I like guns."
September 10, 2007 9:30 PM
It makes me feel stupid repeating myself. I thought the O_o would cause you to reread your counter @ September 11, 2007 12:05 PM. I guess not. So I'll just quote you: "The pen is backed by the sword!"
September 11, 2007 4:40 PM
Shore-Leave OIC said...
I love guns and things that go bang, is that wrong? Should I love dasies, flower children, and peace protest? WTF!
Are you even listening to the main argument or do you regularly just dismiss what is said by people who don't like what you like or have a different lifestyle?
Yes the pen is BACKED by the sword. The only reason the pen is mighty is because there is a cop, soldier, or nuclear warhead behind it.
When the judge writes that warrant for your arrest, its not the pen you have to be worried about, its that SWAT team kicking in your door at 2am you have to be worried about.
And yea, the pen wrote the constitution, it was amazing. It was the WAR THAT FOLLOWED that made it more than just a piece of paper.
Hell, there is all kinds of drivel (like your blog) and laws written down that don't mean jack because they are never enforced like J-Walking or laws against sodomy. No one cares because no one is worried about some gun toting man enforcing it.
Or here's a better one, the US says "stop fighting" in some Eastern European shithole. They have some 2 month conferences and talk and finally come to the conclusion of writing down some stuff. Yeah pen! Problem is no one just stops fighting and says, "Oh shit, was that written with a pen? We doomed now son!" No, you have to PHYSICALLY GO THERE and project pieces of metal at very high speed from some type of tube (IE barrel) and kill people. Then the masses are like, "okay, I'll listen, but don't kill me".
Yes the pen is backed by the sword. I knew what the fuck I wrote the first time I don't need you reposting my thoughts like I got a goddamn twin who does half my shit for me.
September 11, 2007 4:58 PM
Kønig Hasemörder said...
"I love guns and things that go bang, is that wrong? Should I love dasies, flower children, and peace protest? WTF!"
Kønig Hasemörder said...
September 10, 2007 8:37 PM
September 10, 2007 9:30 PM
Oh by the way, for the prisoner dilemma to be relevant, all members must be in prison. I guess you're not as free as you thought.
The pen is backed by principle, metaphorically speaking of course.
September 11, 2007 5:08 PM
Woozie said...
Daisies make my skin itch, children suck, peace protests suck. But you know what else sucks? Bad grammar. It's peace protests, not peace protest. Grammar Jew.
The pen is not always backed by the sword. Galileo told people the universe didn't revolve around the Earth, the Catholic church threatened to rip his head off, but people eventually believed him. No one ever went to war over that.
What about the civil rights movement? Sure there were some relatively violent people involved like Malcolm "by any means necessary" X but MLK and other supporters of nonviolent resistance definitely had a larger impact on the civil rights movement being (mostly) successful.
September 11, 2007 5:41 PM
thimscool said...
In the beginning was the word.
You can't even make a sword without the words necessary to think concepts... And I'll bet that metallurgy was put to pen long before any sword was put to flesh.
Am I just parsing... (wait for it) words? No.
Undirected force is nothing. The pen backs the sword, which backs the pen. Chicken and egg question.
September 11, 2007 6:06 PM
Shore-Leave OIC said...
Woozie: As for peace protest. Ghandi devoted his whole life to it, then got shot, and India still got devided. Hence, we have Pakistan
Sword: 1 Pen: 0
Galileo doesn't even count, that was science. He made some stuff and people didn't believe him but he wasn't trying to force his views. If anything he was just more frustrated. Its like the human Genome, isn't a sword vs pen case
Moving right along we have some guy who mentioned metallurgy
Okay, I am willing to bet dimes to donuts that the SWORD came first THEN the word. Why? Because after some guy eventually got it down, it was WORTH writing down. Usually if you look at human civilization, you have a bunch of wars/warlords and THEN after everyone is done fighting, people start creating writing systems. They don't make writing systems first, if that was true every people on earth would have their own writing system FIRST.
Come on man, these questions can be answered by a 7th grade history book, READ PEOPLE! READ!
Yes we are all in a prison, its called earth. You know there seems to be a fundamental block in my conversation with you, and dare I say it, I think you lack in FORMAL education. Anyone who has sat down in psychology/sociology 101 would have understood the prisoners dilemna and how it applies to the earth.
I'm not taking you to school, you can do that on your own time. The rest your arguments have broken down into poorly coordinated borderline personal attacks and re-posting what I already said. That shit might work on the internet when your battling it out on some disgruntled teenager/man-boy but it doesn't work on me.
Community college is cheap, go get some!
September 11, 2007 6:24 PM
thimscool said...
OINC, put down the whippet dispenser.
I didn’t say that words predate fighting… I was just pointing out that, if one wants to make a sword that actually works, one needs a recipe for steel. I’m willing to bet that there were no swords before Sumerians. I believe that Conan is fiction, not history, bro.
Now obviously there were some heavies with clubs deciding who got to be medicine man, but I think you’re missing my point. Let’s warp to WWII for another illustration. My granddad made a camera that took 20 shots in quick succession, one millionth of a second apart. He used this camera to take the first images of the birth of a flame… inside of a ramjet manifold. He subsequently was part of the project that made our ramjets about 20% more efficient than the German models. That meant deeper bombing raids and faster, more agile fighters. Sword, meet pen.
The gentlemen that conceived of the A-bomb, and then the H-bomb were not writing with swords in dirt. Sword, meet pen.
My point is not to say that you are completely wrong. My point is that you are only half right… and that’s not good enough to win a war.
Having said that, Mr. Rabbitslayer (Hasemorder) is talking about poetry in the face of tyranny. I would have to agree that this approach will fail.
However, leaving aside the pen, and poetry... there is a good example of words and concepts triumphing against tyranny. It's pretty amazing that Christianity became the religion of the Roman Empire... Not that the Romans didn't alter it substantially. But only fifty years before it was adopted, they were still slaughtering Christians at the circus. And the Christians did not resort to force.
What do you make of this counterexample?
September 11, 2007 6:50 PM
Shore-Leave OIC said...
Alright, I'm STILL not getting your logic. And as to how you arrived at the conclusion that the pen is mightier than the sword based on the fact someone designed something is a HUGE stretch to say the least. With that logic FOOD is more important than the sword and the pen because without your granddad wouldn't have made it past being an infant. But hey, whatever...what the fuck do I know?
I have declared myself correct. Why because its my goddamn blog!
But seriously what you said was a huge stretch. The sword is what backs the pen. The sword came before the written word, this isn't even debatable unless you want to argue history. Then we both have to whip out our post-graduate gowns and caps in order to argue that one.
September 11, 2007 7:11 PM
thimscool said...
OK. I have a Masters in Physics from SUNY Stony Brook.
You’re right, you don’t get my logic. But first let’s deal with the trivial issue:
The sword was invented in the middle bronze age, sometime in the second millennium, BC.
Writing was invented in the early bronze age, before the third millennium, BC.
If you read any reputable book on prehistory or archeology, you will learn that writing was closely tied to the further development of those cultures into city-states, eventually leading to sword craft, large armies, and empire building.
But none of that matters, because I have already conceded that before there was writing, force was dominating the way that societies were organized. In short, we’re basically in agreement.
The disconnect comes because you think I believe that the pen backs the sword, and not vice-versa. You’ve misunderstood me. I am saying that this is like asking if the chicken or egg came first. Weapons and brains depend on each other in all but the most primitive organisms, which evolved long before us humans came around to debate the point.
You said it well earlier when you pointed out that we all depend on each other because ignorance is a condition of life… people like me need people like you, and vice-versa.
Got me?
What service are you in?
September 11, 2007 7:28 PM
Kønig Hasemörder said...
"You know there seems to be a fundamental block in my conversation..."
September 11, 2007 8:06 PM
Shore-Leave OIC said...
I see
as for your second question. I'm in the service...as far as which one why do you ask? I make it a point not to talk about my work.
September 11, 2007 8:14 PM
Kønig Hasemörder said...
: )))
September 11, 2007 8:19 PM
Shore-Leave OIC said...
Thanks Konig Hasemorder! 35 fucking comments NOT abount Benchmade's push dagger. way to keep things on track their bud. You should go work for Amtrak
September 11, 2007 9:47 PM
Kønig Hasemörder said...
Ghostdog, sweet.
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