Dec 29 2007
Meaning what exactly
After much investigation I’ve discovered that one of the driving forces that causes faith heads to latch onto their delusions is the belief that their life has infinitely more meaning if there is an invisible sky daddy fortifying their eternal meaning vessel. The standard issue argument against the naturalists is that our lives must be very shallow if all we can claim to be is the mortal human animal. The religious see us holding a glass that’s empty and pity the loss of the contents. We reply, “What glass? I have a body”
It’s as if those that walk in the kingdom of the holies, look at us humans and wonder how we can live from day to day, year to year, with the knowledge that at the end we’ll “complexly” not be. It’s assumed that since the secularists can’t extract meaning from another dimension we are forced to place a valued rating system on the meaning of a persons life depending on how much their actions influenced, or their work influenced, future groups of humans. Logically the idea of god and the good Shepard is very comforting in this view of reality. In my opinion this is the cause that secular/religious people create idols of historically documented figures. The god child view also contains the belief that it doesn’t really matter at all what one did or made, for as long as they loved the god and try to obtain the impossible perfection of his prophets, they have achieved the ultimate meaning in the eye of the god. Because apparently gods purpose was to create souls that could chose not to love him, thus creating a dualist system of mean and mean-nots. God must fear a world of atheists because then he would loss meaning, his purpose would be a failure and all would flash in a skillet of hell.
I’m not convinced that there is a value spectrum of meaning. Ether a person places meaning in something or they don’t. If something had meaning placed in it, that meaning will always be a fact, even if the thing and the meaning giver fuzz out into the chaos of the universe. There is no such objective thing as “real” meaning by consensuses. There is success by consensus which is objective and measurable but just because 99.9% of the human population place meaning in a pattern of stars in the nights sky doesn’t mean that a loner on a deserted island and his meaning of a split second falling star is any less meaningful. Nor does the mean of a collection of subjectively valued meanings have any relevance to individual or majority valued meaning; Meaning is not up for debate.
An interesting observation is that one can place meaning in something, then grow out of holding any meaning to the thing thus transforming it to a current state of non meaning according to the original meaning giver. But a fact of history can not be erased, and even though the meaning instiller fluctuates, once something gets a dose of meaning that dose can’t be undone (sci-fi time travelers exempt - be careful what you mean to). Meaning is such a strange word because it’s definition is reciprocal. Meaning is only comprehensible on a highly metaphysical level and thus understandably is used frequently in the dialog of god. Meaning is not godspeak’s sole domain however. Most healthy people place ultimate meaning in society, mother nature and in their own existence: rightfully so. Naturalists know that this is the only life we’ll ever have, and as such, nothing can have more meaning than every second we work to keep: waiting in the grocery store line or lining up for president. If we had an opportunity for eternal life, “our time” would be meaningless and that belief is a danger. Life on earth means everything.
Sometimes, like in this post, you sound exactly like the religious people who have to have their way.
And if someone doesn’t agree with your ‘meaning’ that isn’t up for debate, well, then you won’t be able to debate it. Or discuss it. Or even admit the possibility of ever being wrong. Just like them. Odd, I hate it when they do that.
You sound exactly like some atheists that don’t believe in god because of believers. Counter the argument:
Life on earth means everything.
You both sound exactly like some guys that… say stuff.
An interesting observation is that one can place meaning in something, then grow out of holding any meaning to the thing thus transforming it to a current state of non meaning according to the original meaning giver.
When I was young, those things that were meaningful to me are very different than what is now intrinsically meaningful. There are Tangibles and Intangibles. I like the fact that there is not a higher power that is controlling what I should find meaningful for if I believed in that higher source I would stagnate waiting for the ultimate which would equate to death.
I like living on a playing field that is constant flux and change that is controlled ultimately by me. If I were to fall in love and be rejected, the tangible is the rejection. The intangible is that I am able to use my mind to refigure that rejection and therefore make the object of my love that was meaningful now perhaps an object of indifference or not meaningful.
The example of love is just one. I can think of many other examples. Perhaps making money is the most meaningful thing out there, one day I wake up and realize that I am dying of cancer and the money loses its meaningfulness as I understand that health was ultimately more important.
Unlike you, I am tolerant of other people’s need to believe that this life is simply a “dress rehearsal” for a more meaningful life. The ultimate irony is that when a person of faith dies, there will simply be nothing and therefore they will never know that they spent their whole existence attempting to give lip service and meaning to something that was never real but in their mind. However this very thing services as a definition of Faith, intangible and tangible. I have no desire to take something that another person places meaning in and crap on it. I do believe in respect for others beliefs whether they are based on tangible or intangible meaningful or not meaningful.